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Wide White: Who thought a non-binding resolution could mean so much?

Wednesday, October 10, 2007

Who thought a non-binding resolution could mean so much?

I've seen the debate over a measure on Armenia before.

Yes, that's right. Armenia. It's not a hair on your arm. It's not a religious viewpoint. It's a country.

And apparently, the United States Congress' non-binding resolution stating that they believe Armenia suffered from a genocide at the hands of Turkey is a huge, huge deal.
WASHINGTON - A House panel defied President Bush on Wednesday and approved a measure that he said would damage U.S. goals in the Middle East.

The measure that would recognize the World War I-era killings of Armenians as a genocide had been strongly opposed by Turkey, a key NATO ally that has supported U.S. efforts in Iraq.
...
At issue is the killing of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turks around the time of World War I. Turkey denies that the deaths constituted genocide, says the toll has been inflated and insists that those killed were victims of civil war and unrest.
...
Turkey raised the possibility of impeding logistical and other U.S. military traffic now using Turkish airspace.
...
70 percent of U.S. air cargo headed for Iraq goes through Turkey, as does about one-third of the fuel used by the U.S. military in Iraq.
...
95 percent of new vehicles designed to better protect against mine attacks are being flown through Turkey to get to Iraq.
It's pretty amazing to me. A non-binding resolution that simply states, "We, the members of this Congress, agree that..." is potent enough to damage ties with Turkey.

So be it, if you ask me. The resolution is pointless to me, but then, I'm not Armenian. It obviously means something to others to have a simple fact acknowledged. I don't understand, but I'm not against it, and if it causes Turkey - a country which, as "Western" as they pretend to be, has a pretty rough human rights record - to turn their backs on the United States, maybe it's just all the more assurance that we need to get our butts out of the Middle East and let them fight their own battles.

posted by Joey at 10/10/2007 11:25:00 PM

25 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous declared,

This Armenian sponsored resolution means something to me because I am from eastern Turkey and my grand father is not a criminal. We have not killed our Armenian neighbors although some of them collaborated with the invading Russian army. Armenians were simply deported away from the eastern front.

But this Armenian sponsored resolution means something to my American friends as well. This resolution indicates how the American representatives become puppets in the hands of special interest groups, like the Armenians in this case. I have a simple question:
Do the representatives know enough history to vote on this resolution?

To help you with the answer, I suggest that you read the minutes of the discussion in the foreign affairs commitee. The discusion has nothing to do with history, it is all politics. This resolution is a spat on the face of historians and scientest in general.

10/12/2007 11:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

I'm still waiting for the day when 'collateral damage' of millions of Vietnamese, Cambodian, Korean, Latin American, and now Iraqi deaths, caused directly or indirectly by the misadventures of the world's sole hyperpower, will be labelled as 'genocide'.
Oh, and did I mention a certain dear friend called Israel, you know, the one to whom the rules don't apply?

But hey, it's not genocide if we don't say so...just like it's not torture if we don't say so!

10/12/2007 6:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

And how did I miss the fire bombing of German and Japanese civilians? Oh, and there were two nukes as well...

But it's not genocide if we don't say so!

10/12/2007 6:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

what about killing the native americans (untermenschen) and taking away their land for "lebensraum" History was always used as a tool to manipulate masses and create conflict ....

10/12/2007 8:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

For the guy who says his grandfather was from Eastern Turkey... Both my Armenian Grandmother and Grandfather were from Eastern Turkey. Before they married, they both had their own families. They both saw their husband and wife killed, they saw their babies killed. Their throats slashed in their arms. You tell me that the killing of my family was not Genocide!

10/12/2007 9:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

Turkey I don’t get it our congress is fucking useless or president lied to get us into war to kill a million + innocent people Iraq & US citizens, our dollar is going down the tubes because all this republican administration can do is spend money that they don’t have.

And you’re worried about what we say???? WTFF?


Or is this another one of this administration to divert our attention so that you can do something underhanded behind our backs in front of our faces??

Don’t worry Turkey the rest of America loves ya.


mrethiopianj

10/12/2007 9:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

This is dumb, you have some old geezers sitting in senate voting on something that doesnt matter much to them anyhow. I tell you what does matter, air drops to our troops and where do those air drops come from yup turkey.

It aggrivates me that they wait until now to do it, gee couldnt do it when we were not reliant on Turkish airbase. Why do a bunch of old geezers get to speak for the american people!

10/12/2007 10:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

because we voted them in there...that is how it works here in America.

10/12/2007 10:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

To Mr. East Turkey ( Armenia for the past 3000 years), your grandfathers slaughtered and murdered 4 of my great grandfathers at the same day. What they teach you at schools is lies. I hope one day you will deny the genocide in Europe and end up in prison. Why are you afraid of a resolution anyway. Why are you guys afraid of something that happened 100 years ago??!!
LEON

10/12/2007 11:38 PM  
Blogger Joey declared,

Um, I'm not sure who's afraid of what happened 100 years ago, but if anyone is afraid, maybe it's for the same reason you're afraid to actually post your name?

Just a thought...

I should also note that I don't personally have a real opinion on this issue. I know people are very passionate on both sides, but I'm not Turkish or Armenian and I'm not making decisions regarding where we fly our cargo to Iraq. That's not to say I don't think I should care, I just haven't sat down and studied this issue yet.

But the point I was making in the post to begin with is that this is a NON-BINDING RESOLUTION!!! It does absolutely nothing other than say, "We, the majority of the Congress of the United States, believe ____ happened."

Great, a lot of people have the opportunity to argue their opinions on this. Who benefits?!? The arguing was already happening; the arguing will continue. For better or worse, the U.S. Congress just did little more than help bring it to a boiling point. They succeeded in giving Armenians a reason to say, "Ha! We were right!" They also succeeded in ticking off a lot of Turks (and by doing so, some people in the U.S. government).

Beyond that, I see little having been accomplished through this resolution.

10/13/2007 1:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

I am ashamed to call myself an American after reading the comments from you ignorant, uneducated people. We claim to be fighting a war in Iraq, because the animal that ruled it for so long was killing his own people (aside from many other things). And here we are trying to cover up exactly the same truths that our men and women are fighting so hard for today.

If we as human race deny just one Genocide, we have allowed all the other sick people in the world open rights to do as they wish. It's not about Armenian gratification. Hitler himself said it... "Who remembers the Armenians" before he went on to slaughter millions of Jews in WWII. We SHOULD recognize every single atrocity, so that the world knows and does not repeat.

We have a moral obligation to the world, not to deny such a horrible event in history.

10/13/2007 2:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

For those who need a history lesson... And for those who continue to put the word Genocide in quotes... It is sickening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

10/13/2007 2:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

Hey Mr. Joey, If you look at the end of my comment. It says my name. So here I post it again. I do care about 1.5 million who were butchered. To Mr. East Turkey who has the guts to say Armenians were SIMPLY deported. Let me tell you how the four brothers of my great grand father were butchered. They were tied to horses and dragged across the city and were forced to spit on the cross. Remember you called us "thumma and kafer" A turkish/arabic word for non believer. So Mr. Simply Deported go ask your grandparents what they called christians in your country and how much they loved them.

LEON

10/13/2007 2:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

"To Mr. East Turkey ( Armenia for the past 3000 years), your grandfathers slaughtered and murdered 4 of my great grandfathers at the same day. What they teach you at schools is lies. I hope one day you will deny the genocide in Europe and end up in prison. Why are you afraid of a resolution anyway. Why are you guys afraid of something that happened 100 years ago??!!
LEON"

Noone is afraid of anything. Turkey opened his libraries and documents about the events of 1915-1920 but Armenia REFUSES to open theirs! See the catch? Now WHO is afraid? Get your facts right and stop your hatred and lies please. We don't need endless hatred, we need peace and we need it more than any other time now.

10/13/2007 5:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

Turkish libraries!!!! Even your Muslim ARAB brothers attest to your barbarism against the Armenian people. Hey, if you ever join the EU, you can't lie like this. They will throw in jail.
Congratulations for having the largest treasury of human skeletons in the world.

10/13/2007 5:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

Mr. Turkey. Why did you threaten your own Turkish Historian to silence a year ago(and I don't mean the one you killed). Was it because he was not agreeing with your lovely Turkish libraries??? I know it's hard for you to accept the barbarism of your ancestors (supported by even your muslim arab brothers)

10/13/2007 5:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

"Mr. 2:58 AM comment. As a matter of fact, Turks are trying to rewrite their own history by saying it never happened. The history attests that it happened, it is backed up historians, eye witness accounts, Anatolian Greeks, Arabs, german officers and for me my own grandoparents. So don't you dare say again it did not happen.

Lukas"

EU and what we are talking has nothing to do and freedom of speech is available in EU as well. You can say whatever you want. That's what we are doing here with this bill right? And all the sources you listed yet nothing officially has been still presented for 30 years now and Armenia always plays it down when they are asked. And I will say this but as an archeologist, it is very normal that the land that Turkey sits on has too many bones. Too many Empires stood there. One of the first human settlements. What do you expect? I can't believe people as narrow minded as yourself can start chanting death songs before even reasoning. But again... We have freedom of speech. So enjoy it. I hope you are happy with all your hatred of mankind and I hope one day you will learn to love your own race.

10/13/2007 5:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

Archeology Man in Turkey. I do respect you and the work you do.
We have no problems with any Turkish person who does not deny what happened. We also love your football teams and even cheer for them( only when they are as good as galatasarai) Thank you anyways for giving me a lesson in Archeology about my ancestral land.

10/13/2007 6:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

To Mr. Archeology. Sorry for interfering. I 'm of Greek origin. My great grandparents were butchered along with the Armenians in Anatolia. Please send me the bones of my grandparents when you excavate them. I know you are busy excavating other bones at this time since you you have the largest human bone supply in the world.

Thank you.

10/13/2007 7:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

What a joke! America is charging Turkey with "Genocide" when they are committing the same act on African Americans everyday! Forget slavery, yeah right. This country was built on genocide...Hypocrisy reigns...and we wonder why the world is offended when we try and become the morals police. Sending jobs over seas is a form of genocide against the middle class. What about the Native Americans? Oh, let's forget that too! Un-insured children, genocide. High mortality rates among the poor genocide. Radio talk show hosts who encourage the abuse of "urban outdoorsman" genocide. Hang a noose in a tree and expect the implications to be old folks walking in a line "singing free at last" and allowing more nooses (which all southern blacks know means that it is going to be a hanging of a black person in the near future) genocide. Intern citizens in the name of Home Land security---genocide. Discover the land and kick off the inhabitants, genocide. Genocide, Genocide, Genocide!

10/13/2007 7:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

Absolute hypocrisy. We're going back to an event 90 years ago and pissing off people who today they say "but we didn't have anything to do with the past", just like people here in America today. What about the American Indians ( Native Americans)? Why other countries don't go and make unbinding resolutions denouncing Americas near complete (and complete in some tribe cases) gennocide of the Native American people is beyond me. America has such a short memory for such a short life. And if other countries did that, America would be up in arms. If we go back 90 years, whats to stop others from going back 150-250 years? And people here complain when blacks bring up slavery saying it wasn't us today who did this.

America just isn't the moral athority in the world. In fact, no one is.

10/13/2007 10:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

I was unable to find much empirical data on how many perished and if there are any official orders from Ottoman government specifically for extermination of Armenians. Few dozen survivor stories and comments made by Christian missionaries of the time do not amount to any type of proof.
Most in the West know about this issue through media without any real data, and then assume that it is real.

Could it be real? Maybe. As there are no written evidences, only the tales of survivors, how can we come up with 1.5 million deaths? Did anyone counted? The numbers were half a million in 20s, then 750K; in 80s it went up o 1.5 million. Some today suggest that it was 2 million. Can the number of victims increase 90 years after their deaths?

Why don’t West accept Turkish government's offer for a joint historic research based on empirical data? Is Westerners become such emotionally charged and illogical people in shining armor thinking that they are honoring Armenians while Iraqis are dying in masses as we speak?

10/13/2007 12:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

My grandmother arrived emaciated at the age of 6 to the northern part of Syria. Her parents and 2 brothers wre killed. So "Simply Deported" does not resonate well in my mind when this is still vibrating in my mind. Call it what you want, genocide, extermination, murder, atrocity or any other word you want. I thank the Arabs of norhern Syria who helped my grandmother and the rest of the survivors. I believe you chose the wrong word, you probably meant "Departed away to another life" than "deported from the Eastern front"

10/13/2007 9:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

"Few dozens survivor stories!!" It is one thing to murder, but to deny it all this time is pretty pathetic. Maybe all the Armenians and Greeks of that area are hallucinating. We would like to apologize to you. Onetime the story is: they died, It was World War I, another time nothing happened, then deported. There is no Armenian family who did not lose family members. Your Denial is Shameful.

10/13/2007 10:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous declared,

I am going to start by saying that i am not turkish nor armenian, but i believe in what's right and what's wrong. I read all your comments and i am ashamed to say that whoever is denying the genocide is denying a fact. When you grow up being thaught that the genocide didn't happen, and facts are present to prove it, it shows that the turkish goverment is trying to hide a black page in its past. Just a thought, why did Turkey threaten the united states to cut their military relations if they voted to accept the tragedy that happened in 1915 as genocide if they didnt feel that it was true and it was something they are ashamed of? I dont think turkish people are going to be labeled as murderes if turkey was found guilty. They should just accept it and move on. DEAL WITH IT PEOPLE!!! Many other countries have caused the death of many civilians and admit to their mistakes!! Why the big fuzz??
Put pride aside Turkish people and admit that back in the days, someone did something very bad.

10/14/2007 6:56 PM  

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